Working in healthcare and science: Q&A with Dr Alex George

Alex:

We're here today to explore jobs in healthcare and science. I've spent many years working in the industry as an A&E doctor.Throughout the pandemic I've been on the frontline in London hospitals. Now I didn't my exams first time round, but I knew being a doctor was what I wanted to do so I kept going. I built up resilience and I took the exams I needed to do again, until I ed.I'm now not only working for the NHS, but I'm also the Youth Mental Health Ambassador for the government, which is something I am incredibly ionate about.

It's been an amazing career so far, and I'm so excited for what lies ahead. It's not just me ing you today though. We have some great people to help us explore healthcare, science, and various jobs within these industries, to give you an insight of what might be available to you when you leave school, and hopefully give you some career inspiration.

So shall we meet them?

Everyone please meet our lists: Shannon, Shaan, and Deborah.

Thank you welcome everyone, could you just tell us a little bit about who you are and what it is that you do.

Shannon:

I'm Shannon McCall and work for the RSPCA as a veterinary surgeon and prosecutions vet.

Alex:

Lovely to meet you.

Shaan:

I'm Shaan Gill and I'm in my fifth and final year of completing a Level 6 degree apprenticeship as a laboratory scientist with AstraZeneca.

Alex:

Amazing.

Debbie:

I'm Deborah Olusanya but I also go by Debbie and I'm a healthcare assistant for the Royal Wolverhamption NHS Trust.

Alex:

Amazing big shout-out of course to the NHS there.

Shannon, let's start with you. Now obviously the roles that we're talking about today are quite varied. It would be interesting to know actually, what does that actually mean?

Shannon:

So, I work in Manchester as an RSPCA vet, there's about 30 of us throughout the UK. And the RSPCA as many people are aware is the largest animal charity in the world, and they really do lots of work to promote the welfare of animals and alleviate suffering. And we do this through the frontline inspectorate teams that rescue those animals, the vets that treat them, and the animal centres that ultimately rehome them and give them that second chance in life.

Alex:

You know, what does a day to day look like, you know, for you, what is a normal day in your life?

Shannon:

There is no such thing as a normal day I suppose. Um, it is a very varied job. So I'll either be dealing with the public doing about 45 consultations, or six to eight operations. Dealing with the Inspectorate and treating new strays and wild animals that they bring us, or teaching some students, or potentially visiting one of those animal rescue centres to carry out their veterinary work.

Alex:

Now we have a few photos I believe here that we're going to have a little look through. Can you talk through what we're seeing here?

Shannon:

So the one on the left was one of our strays that was brought in through one of the inspectors. It was a love Ragdoll kitten that was having a lot of gastrointestinal issues, um, and she was treated and put into a rehoming centre and ultimately found her home.The second one, um, was an image of a cat that had a dislocated toe that was also treated. And then we just have a photo of me at one of the rescue centres and health checking an animal on intake - you can see they're nice and happy to be there. And the last one is a fox that was brought to myself that had been seen limping. So we X-rayed it, gave it some treatment and got it back out into its environment.

Alex:

It must be difficult sometimes going into work not knowing what you're going to see really, I would imagine.

Shannon:

Yeah every day's a challenge but that's what I love about the job.

Alex:

How did you get into this, you know, because I think being a vet, you know, being a surgeon and doing medicine and looking after animals and things, it is something that's quite kind of different I expect and not a lot of people might know much about it, so how did you get into it?

Shannon:

Yeah definitely so I always loved animals and from the age of two when I could walk I was regularly following my granddad down the lane to feed his chickens. And then at about the age of six we got our first family pet which was a lovely collie cross labrador, um, and then from then I started volunteering at a rescue centre, erm, the one that was in the photo actually, working mainly with dogs and cats. And when I met their vet there I really saw him as a role model and absolutely was amazed by the work he was doing, and knew that that's what I wanted to do in the future.

Alex:

I think it's really important when you can to try and get experience in things and then actually find out, you know, do I actually like this and it's kind of, if you can, great to go along and just get a bit of experience isn't it in that field?

Shannon:

Definitely. Erm, it is a requirement for the universities but also it's a very long course that you're committing yourself to so, you need to be sure that you have seen a little bit of practice or done some work with different animals and know what's for you.

Alex:

And of course everyone watching very lucky to have you here today of course to kind of share your insight into it, thank you.Now over to you, Shaan. Talk us a little bit through what you do because a lab scientist is quite an exciting idea I guess, but I must be honest I don't really know a huge amount of what that looks like. Could you talk it through a little bit?

Shaan:

Yeah so I work for AstraZeneca which are a global biopharmaceutical company that focuses on the discovery, development, and commercialisation of prescription drugs for some of the world's most complex diseases. There is a huge focus on being patient led and science driven and to push the boundaries of science to create these life changing medicines. So for me, I work in oncology research and development in translational medicine. So this involves us carrying out analysis on patient samples, so tissues and blood samples from real patients enrolled in AstraZeneca clinical trials testing new potential cancer medicines.

Alex:

So, when you're looking at this then, you know, breaking it down very simply, when you say tissues what are you looking at and what are you looking for?

Shaan:

So we're looking at patient samples and we're really trying to understand the biology, so understanding what is happening to the patient when given a drug, um, understanding mechanisms, understanding why some respond better, maybe some respond worse, why is there resistance, but understanding the effect of the drug the treatment on the cancer. So it's really interesting.

Alex:

It must be fascinating to kind of learn and develop and I mean, the day to day what does that kind of look like, you know, are you kind of making discoveries every day? Is it, you know, you'd imagine that moment you'd be like wow I found something new, you know?

Shaan:

Oh well as Shannon said it's super varied, um, I tend to work across multiple projects at once so, um, kind of, I guess in beginning stage of a project I'm doing a lot of research, I'm really trying to understand what are we looking for, what is the purpose, and getting that background information.And then in the midst of a project it's heavily lab-based and that's my favourite part. I get to be really hands on in the lab -

Alex:

Stuck in.

Shaan:

Yeah exactly stuck in, using all this high tech equipment, and running samples, and I really enjoy that. And then the end of the project is really lovely where it all comes together, you get that data and we're making our conclusions. So it's very varied but it's so interesting.

Alex:

I would imagine using the tech is a bit complicated, I struggle with PowerPoint so I take my hat off to you on that. And we've also got a few photos, could you talk us through what we see?

Shaan:

This was actually at a science fair. So a big part is collaboration, sharing our data. So this was a networking day which is essentially a conference, listening to various talks and then activities.

Alex:

It is just amazing how you can see, learn so much about human disease and treatments and things cos I guess on like our level, you know, working in A&E we see I guess the kind of frontline element and we use treatments and drugs on those occasions, I guess much like you would in your industry. But there's so much that goes on before you actually give that medication isn't it, it really is fascinating. You know, how did you get into being a lab scientist really?

Shaan:

I mean I had no plans that I would end up here. So at school all I knew was that I enjoyed Science, and in particularly that was Biology. So through attending, you know, career fairs I spoke to scientists there, and particularly when I got to go on some work experience opportunities, um, there I got to speak to scientists first hand, I got to see what a lab environment looks like, what do they do. And that was kind of my first exposure to industry, and the work experience really kind of consolidated my idea that yeah I want to be a scientist, this seems like a path for me.

Alex:

Well, I want to say a big thank you to you all, you work so hard and particularly throughout the pandemic for obvious reasons, I think we've got a photo actually here of you working as well which is lovely indeed. So yeah thank you, thank you for your work.And now Deborah you work in a hospital, we work in I guess a similar kind of setting. How has the last year or so been for you, how have you found it?

Deborah:

Um, well the last year has been quite a rollercoaster, obviously everyone at the hospital's really busy. So it was just kind of trying to get around the busy schedule while still making sure all our patients are comfortable, and no one feels like they've been forgotten, so. It has been quite crazy but I think things are starting to settle down back again.

Alex:

Yeah the pandemic's been definitely a challenge on all of us. Deborah: Yeah.Can you tell us a little bit about what you do, what's a day to day for you what's your role?

Deborah:

Yes, so as a healthcare assistant, one of our main roles is kind of to relieve the nurses and the doctors. So that involves maybe helping the patients with feeding or maybe if they need a wash or helping them to the bathroom, taking care of their charts so their food charts, their intervention charts. Just making sure that altogether my job is just mainly around patient-centred care.

Alex:

I think people often think of hospitals as like the doctors and nurses but oh my gosh we couldn't do anything if it wasn't like for people like yourselves doing what you do, you know, it's, I think what I love about the NHS is it's this big team, you know, everyone's got their different roles from like radiographers to the doctors to HCA to the porters. And actually without having all of those pieces of that puzzle you don't create that full picture. And we actually have some photos I think from your hospital, could you talk us through them?

Deborah:

Yeah so these are just the normal wards that I tend to work on every week so it's just a lot of rooms, sometimes it's side rooms so where patients are by themselves, or we have the rooms where there's four to five patients. And it's a really nice environment to be fair, everything's, we always make sure everything's nice and clean and sanitized.

Alex:

Amazing. I mean, and can I just make the point that hospitals don't usually look that empty! I can tell you that, and I doubt the veterinary surgery looks like that either, it's quite busy I'd say. I hear that your interest in this role started by TikTok. Is that true, can you tell us about that?

Deborah:

Yeah, so, as most people my age do, I was just scrolling to- through TikTok and I came across this page, so this that used to talk about how to get into the healthcare sector and I always knew I was interested. So I came across a video that talked about how to get work experience, and so it was to go through NHS Careers and look in your area. So that was exactly what I did and I actually found my volunteering role. So I just called in and, the rest is history I guess.

Alex:

I'm in, I want that place there.

Deborah:

Yeah.

Alex:

Thank you for sharing that. It's helped me and hopefully the audience understand what kinds of roles there are in healthcare and science, and how varied the routes are into these jobs.See you in a minute.

Alex:

I'd love to hear what are the challenging aspects in each of your careers. Shannon, what about for you?

Shannon:

I think obviously as an RSPCA vet we do see a lot of cruelty and neglect cases. Erm, one such recent case was a little dog called Teddy who had been thrown over a fence and suffered some broken ribs. So I was the vet treating Teddy and found out after imaging that he'd broken a lot of ribs, and they were at different stages of healing, so he'd actually suffered on multiple occasions. However it's also the best part of the job because I got to treat him, I got to follow up with the rehoming centre and see his whole rehabilitation journey. And he has subsequently been rehomed into hopefully his forever home and is a lot happier for it.

Alex:

Shaan, what about you?

Shaan:

So as an apprentice my work is split 20/80 between studying and working, so that means I work four days a week as a lab scientist at AstraZeneca, but then I also study one day a week for an Applied Bioscience degree. So this work/study balance can definitely be a bit of a struggle at times. I have to sit regular exams, I have modules to be working for, coursework deadlines, like any other students. But then I also have my responsibilities as an employee: of projects, meetings, all those kind of responsibilities. So it definitely does become a bit of a juggling act especially when all the deadlines come together at the same time. However there is a really great system in place, so we have supervisors and managers that help us manage our workloads, and there's a really fantastic apprentice community where we're all there to each other, help each other with questions. It can be a struggle but if you plan it well you can get through it [chuckles].

Alex:

Deborah what about you, you know, what would you say to that, challenges and things?

Deborah:

Well when I started my roles like working within the NHS I was actually just starting sixth form. And obviously it was still quite in the heat of the pandemic so handling being at home, having to study from home, and then going to work and seeing patients who weren't able to see families, and it was quite challenging to see so many people upset. Yes. We also found the iPad situation so where people are allowed to FaceTime or call their family . And then obviously now I'm back at school for sixth form so it's better for face-to-face learning so things have started to improve but it was quite challenging at the time.

Alex:

Now we're gonna rewind a little bit and go back to when we were a bit younger and, you know, how we decided what we wanted to do and our journeys and stuff. I think we've got a nice little photo, I say nice but we have 'a' photo of me and - none of you are allowed to laugh alright, don't laugh at that. I kind of that time. I really wanted to be a doctor, I mean that was kind of my real focus. I wanted to get into med school and I'd done work experience and I'd, you know, really really focused on like my studies. And as I mentioned at the start, I actually - when I sat my exams and had my place, I missed out on my place because my A-level, one of my results - Chemistry, two marks I missed out - I was so upset. But, you know, it's one of those things where, looking back everything I learnt along that journey and even going through, you know, a sense of failure almost, it actually really helped me improve. And I am a very big believer that failure, you learn much more from your failures than you do your successes, you know, when you go through a tough time with something it makes you stronger in many ways but… I'd just be interested to hear really, like what were your inspirations, you know, when you look back did you always know what you wanted to do or, yeah how did you get into what you've done?

Shannon:

So as I said before I did a lot of work with a local animal shelter, but I also got some placements on farms and stables with those animals that I hadn't really had any exposure to, and in a lab in Northern Ireland as well, which all proved very useful and all made me realise that yes this was something that I wanted to do. And I would really encourage anyone that's wanting to get into the veterinary field to go and seek out those placements, erm, and chat to people who are within the profession. I didn't know anyone that was a vet until I started volunteering at the sanctuary, and that vet helped me to get into vet school, helped me the entire way through vet school with my first operations and things… yes.

Alex:

Wow, and it's a very important point you made there. You know, I had no family or friends that were doctors or even in the hospital, you know, so sometimes you do have to work a bit harder and getting experience, it doesn't always have to be, you know, there in A&E, it could be going to a care home and seeing how people care, you know, it doesn't always have to be exactly in the sector, I think it's just getting an understanding of roughly what it is isn't it?

Shannon:

Yeah definitely I mean being in a vet practice is great experience but you also have to go and see what it's like on the farms, [Yeah, absolutely] what it's like dealing with wildlife and things cos they're all parts of the job that you don't necessarily see in one vet practice in one day or couple of days that you're given.

Alex:

No absolutely. Shaan, what about you how did you, ah, what got you into this?

Shaan:

Well I guess originally I also wanted to be a doctor. Um, I think when people kind of think about Science and if you enjoy that, especially Biology, you do think of doctor as the right path. But for me I, think the years of medical school don't really suit my way of learning, I really wanted to just get stuck in and be in the workplace. And there just kind of seeing what actually a scientist is, that word meant nothing to me at school, you know, when someone says scientist you think of a white lab coat and some glasses and maybe a Bunsen burner, so what was that?

Alex:

Yeah, that's science!

Shaan:

Yeah, so understanding what it is, what you do, um, the types of techniques and I think the biggest thing to me is, um, kind of the impact of it, being in the science and the healthcare sector generally making a difference, benefitting people's lives is so rewarding, and that's really important to me in making a decision in what I wanted to do so.

Alex:

Yeah, absolutely. Deborah, what about you?

Deborah:

Well I used to have no idea what I wanted to do, I think I telling my mum about 15 different jobs every single month. But I definitely always had an interest in the healthcare sector so, when I did come across that TikTok I did think I feel like my best way to really get a better insight of what I would like to do, I decided to find some work experience at the hospital. And so obviously once I found that and I did six months of volunteering so I only started off with four hours a week, and I was always, I saw how every single person worked and every single person's role and how they all worked alongside each other and then, after the six months I thought okay, I had a good amount of work experience, so I was able to start my training as a healthcare assistant and now I'm still getting stuck in, still seeing what everyone does from physiotherapists to radiographers, I feel like everyone just has such different roles. And that I feel like everyone could probably find something that interests them within the healthcare sector so, it was definitely a good starting point.

Alex:

Yeah that's, I think - I like what you said there about, you know, finding something within that space that suits you because actually, you know, within medicine and like any other jobs, you kind of follow the area that you're interested in. So you might be interested in er, you know, fast-paced lifestyle which is A&E; you might be interested really in mental health and do psychiatry; and each job has its pros and cons. But try not to be, I guess, put off by the initial barriers that you might see because I was very, and I can tell everyone at home, I was really squeamish with blood, okay? I would faint at the sight of needles before I went, I'm not joking. And I thought, "Gosh how am I going to be a doctor if I'm gonna faint">